newLISP 'really' on the iPhone...?

[cormullion]

I noticed that last week Apple released the iPhone SDK, which will let you write applications that run on the iPhone (well, it lets you develop and test them on a simulated iPhone ready for the summer when they open the App Store..).



I saw that Tim Burks has already got his Nu lisp running - or generating code that runs - on the  SDK (http://blog.neontology.com/posts/2008/03/06/NuHelloWorldClassic">NuHelloWorld).



Just out of curiousity I downloaded the SDK and started up XCode. But it's all meaningless - like sitting down in the http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/1486139238/sizes/l/in/set-72157602268352519/">driving seat of an Airbus for the first time. It needs someone smarter than me to make sense of it all.  



So who's going to do the job for newLISP?! Presumably a language that's small and quite quick would be a good choice for running on mobile devices?

[Lutz]

newLISP will be on the iPhone too, but not on top of Objective C but working with the iPhone edition of Java announced by Sun.

[cormullion]

Cool! As long as I don't have to code in Java or Objective C (both fine languages in their own way, but too much for me to learn) I'll be happy!

[newdep]

Although It seems that mobile phone programming is now

catching up finaly..(im waiting for this already a decade..) Its funy

to see how it progresses....



I never thought that Apple would be the first with a popular Phone..

Google and microsoft are catching up and the Open-Source community

is also already working hard for a couple of years to bring their own phone..



We will see what it brings.. In mean time..'Im Weeping my Guitar Gently...' (Jeff Healey +rip+, original by Gharrison +rip+)

 and reading the newlisp docs 9.3.3 like musical notes..and waiting for a nice Java expantion ;-)





I like that steering wheel in that Airbus :-)

[HPW]

Any news on newLISP for iOS ?



http://developer.apple.com/iphone/index.action">http://developer.apple.com/iphone/index.action



Universal binarys for iPad, iPhone and iPod sounds interesting:



http://developer.apple.com/ipad/sdk/index.html">http://developer.apple.com/ipad/sdk/index.html



??

[Lutz]

Having newISP on the iPad and programming with the iPad UI elements would be great, but unfortunately Apple's current rules don't allow it. Technically it would be very easy.



But I use newLISP on the iPad all the time logging into my computer or other sites via SSH and over the internet:



http://www.newlisp.org/newLISP-on-iPad.jpg">http://www.newlisp.org/newLISP-on-iPad.jpg



During June I did much of the work on newLISP at a swimming pool in Cabo San Lucas - Mexico, using the iPad :). The application I am using is iSSH, available for little money at the app store.



You can see me trying out the new multi-line entry feature coming up in the newLISP v 10.2.11 development version, currently in progress here:



http://www.newlisp.org/downloads/development/inprogress/">http://www.newlisp.org/downloads/develo ... nprogress/">http://www.newlisp.org/downloads/development/inprogress/

[HPW]

...... but unfortunately Apple's current rules don't allow it.

What does they fear about using an newlisp-interpreter for that?



Wouldn't more software make it more attractive for the masses?

[cormullion]

Ha - very cool, Lutz! I love the idea of you sitting by the swimming pool working on newLISP on your iPad... !

[HPW]

Other programming enviroments also have serious problems with apple's license policy.



Interesting reading here for revmobile:



http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/revmobile-and-apples-iphone-sdk-agreement">http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-bl ... -agreement">http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/revmobile-and-apples-iphone-sdk-agreement

[cormullion]

I recently jailbroke my old iPod Touch (it has been little used recently, and I was intrigued). Interestingly and scarily it needed only a visit to jailbreakme.com and a bug in a PDF file to break it open. Now I can do things like run terminal commands. :) More relevantly, I could (I presume) compile and install newLISP on it. But I don't know how to compile/install newLISP for anything, so that's for another time.



I can see why phone makers don't want to give you free access to every level of their phone. (It's not just Apple - Google Android http://www.androidcentral.com/google-pulls-easy-root-market">don't always let you do whatever you want either. Some jail-breakers boast of how much commercial software they've pirated, and there's the problem of malicious hacks and scripts being installed without you realising it - the iPhone can be cracked open by a PDF file - just think what you could do with a powerful scripting language. And the phone carriers and media companies aren't going to be happy if you break the mobile phone network restrictions and music DRMs.

[xytroxon]

If you send me the total dollar cost of shipping it to you, you can have my old rotary dial phone...



Then you can "break" walnut shells open with the handset, without fear of Steve Jobs or Apple lawyers coming after you...



Wait a minute...



Got him!!!  $#*@ mosquitoes...



Never mind, I just found another "killer" application for it...



-- xytroxon

[HPW]

Having newISP on the iPad and programming with the iPad UI elements would be great, but unfortunately Apple's current rules don't allow it.

Isn't this only true for Apps which are targeted for App-store mass distrubution?

Would it be allowed for private apps by Ad Hoc Distribution or enterprise In-house Apps?



http://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/distribute.html">http://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/distribute.html

Technically it would be very easy.

When it would not need to much work, it would be a nice option to have it for the above mentioned use.

;-)



I am currently considering to buy a dual boot mac to be able to code in both worlds (win/mac) and for mobile.

[cormullion]

I believe you can write your own apps and run them on your own iOS device if you're a paid-up Apple developer. (The subscription then enables you to download them to your own iOS device.) Uploading and selling applications with built-interpreters is also permitted now. For example, there's a Lua interpreter (iLuaBox) on the AppStore  at the moment, and there's also a Python interpreter. (Both have restrictions on what you can do with regards to the underlying file system, obviously... :)



Dual booting  on a Mac is OK and works well. But running WIndows or Linux in VirtualBox on a Mac is also possible (and another cost-free solution if you have the Windows licenses). If you don't have too many requirements from the hardware, it might be quicker than dual-booting all the time.

[HPW]

Uploading and selling applications with built-interpreters is also permitted now.

Wouldn't this be another argument for a newLISP interpreter on the ipad?



There is also a sheme for the ipad:



http://web.mac.com/Jay_Reynolds_Freeman/My/Pixie_Scheme_III.html">http://web.mac.com/Jay_Reynolds_Freeman ... e_III.html">http://web.mac.com/Jay_Reynolds_Freeman/My/Pixie_Scheme_III.html



http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pixie-scheme-iii/id401023057?mt=8">http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pixie-sc ... 23057?mt=8">http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pixie-scheme-iii/id401023057?mt=8

[nallen05]

There is also a sheme for the ipad:



http://web.mac.com/Jay_Reynolds_Freeman/My/Pixie_Scheme_III.html">http://web.mac.com/Jay_Reynolds_Freeman ... e_III.html">http://web.mac.com/Jay_Reynolds_Freeman/My/Pixie_Scheme_III.html



http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pixie-scheme-iii/id401023057?mt=8">http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pixie-sc ... 23057?mt=8">http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pixie-scheme-iii/id401023057?mt=8

FWIW Jay Reynolds Freeman (the author of Pixie Scheme III for the iPad, referenced above, as well as Wraith Scheme, a Scheme implementation for OS X) is going to present on "Implementing a Scheme Interpreter from Scratch" at the Googleplex in Mountain View on Friday night:



http://www.meetup.com/balisp/events/20214831/">http://www.meetup.com/balisp/events/20214831/



If anyone is near the San Francisco Bay Area this weekend you are warmly invited to attend.



If someone would like to make a presentation about newLISP, we would be very happy to organize a presentation space for this event somewhere in the bay area.



Take care



Nick