another C free compiler

[nigelbrown]

Previously Borland as the Win32 free compiler for NewLisp has been discussed with Pelles C being suggested as a possible alternative (I got errors trying to use Pelles C with no tweaking and have not had time to continue with it)

- now I realise that MS has release a free version (command line only) of Visual C++

viz

"  http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/">http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/vctoolkit2003/



It's independent of .NET, basically superceeds MSVC++ 6.0. The free package includes all dev tools, libaries and operating system API files, but no graphical front end" - the quote is from http://www.keystoneframework.org">www.keystoneframework.org the home of a framework that could be looked at as an alternative front end that's more C-like than tk/tcl.



Have you ever tried NewLisp with MSVC Lutz?





Nigel

[Lutz]

Yes, I tried MSVC 6.0 several years ago. Of all C-compilers tried, Borland was the easiest to port to. Ultimately I would love to see a GCC which can use the Win32 libraries. Mingw is supposed to do that, but has still too much stuff missing the last time we tried (Steve and I) beginning of this year. On Win32 the best thing is still CYGWIN's GCC which is practically identical to GCC in the UNIX world, but you also have to ship 2 extra libraries.



Lutz

[nigelbrown]

As there is now more cygwin stuff around the libraries are probably already on a lot of systems - especially the people who have most interest in newlisp.

[Lutz]

For about a year the Windows version was always released based on cygwin, but there where problems with existing cygwin installations with different versions of libraries. So in the end it came out much easier to support  a native Win32 version, although quite some extra code had to be written for file i/o time/date and i/o stuff going over sockets.



The Borland compiler is very nice as it tries to deliver a lot of stuff you expect when porting from the Unix world. Originally newLISP started out developed with a Microsoft C. This compiler was purchased by Microsoft from Lattice in the early 80's and then rebranded as a Microsoft product. Over the years it got more and more propietary (embrace and extend), to the point that porting from or to MS-VC is a huge task full of little traps. Sometimes a function looks the same but return values are different and this sort of thing. After that newLISP got ported to SUN BSD and then back to Win16 and then Win32 then Linux et al.



Anyway ... what we have currently works pretty well, most of the time I don't haver to worry about platform differences ... just code it and compile on the different platforms, and problem issues are very rare.



The easiest platform to do 'C' is Linux, the next best is BSD and Mac OSX then comes Solaris (10 years behind the curve supporting certain newer developments in their C libraries) and Windows.



What many people are not aware of is, that GCC and its libraries are continously developing and improving (listening to 'C' coders and what they are asking for), while propietary 'C' compilers, like MS VC or Solaris ar standing still or only add propietary stuff, supporting company specific features.



Lutz

[nigelbrown]

Thanks for spending the time to give the background to newlisp and C

[Lutz]

I am glad you found it interesting, love ranting about this stuff. From your previous posts and involvement I guess that 'C' is also one of your preferred tools.



Lutz

[nigelbrown]

I started C with turboC and K&R (First Edition) on PC but prior to that did a lot of FORTRAN - mainly on a PDP-11 and PDP-10.

[eddier]

Not to mention that M$ documentation either stinks or is incorrect.



Eddie

[eddier]

Nigelbrown you are showing your age (wisdom and knowledge). When I was in college in the early 80s, I remember programming C on a PDP-11. If I remember correctly, PDP-11 was an early 70s vintage machine.



Eddie

[nigelbrown]

I was programming the PDP-11 and PDP-10 at university late 70's.

At High school (late 60's, early 70's) we had access to the local university's PDP-10 and I used to sit at gigantic card punch machines preparing my batch jobs. We handed in the batch jobs in through a window and went back a couple of hours later to get the lineprinter print out from the run.

Later we progressed to the classic teletype machines (and yes - they could take paper tape).



It does date me a bit.

[nigelbrown]

To get a feel for a PDP-10 telnet to twenex.org port 23 VT-100 emulation to experience interactive PDP-10 session running on an emulator (i can't remember if special set up is needed - just try the telnet first )

See http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp10emu.html">http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/pdp10emu.html for link on pdp-10 emulation (it is said a Pentium III can give full speed KL10 emulation)



Nigel

[newdep]

Ha... a PDP-10 great ;-)  Ill try that link....